Animatsiya - Discussion

8. Admin 2022-10-10 00:59:33 (edited 2022-10-10 02:32:56)

7. Тихон 2022-10-09 01:59:02 (edited 2022-10-10 01:24:57)

>Sometimes I've found that children's cartoons are the most difficult, because they require a simplicity and economy of language, while the more "adult" things are actually easier.

I think you might be right, especially when it comes to nursery rhymes. Initially it might be easier to understand and translate, but to really make it work on screen is the hard part. The most difficult one so far was "Cock-and-Bull Story" because it was in verses and also had the spoken words often contrast and play around with what was shown on screen, so I had to get the timing of the words right too. The easiest and most straight forward one was "Absent-Minded Giovanni", even the titular wordplay worked perfectly in German (both "рассеянный" and "zerstreut" mean "scattered" as well as "scatterbrained", as he was literally scattered in the cartoon. I just love it when it works out like this).

Adult cartoons might have more material to work with and are more flexible when it comes to work arounds, but i still have to confirm this myself.

>I'd recommend finding things you like - I've always found that the best motivation, regardless of difficulty. :)

I love these cartoons. Even though they are intended for a child or family oriented audience, they are so masterfully crafted and diverse too. Now speaking of this, I am not really a fan of the 2012 revival of the carousel series, I might translate them for completions sake, but I will see on that.

>When I come across a famous poem like that one, I'll usually check to see if it has already been translated. If there's already a good translation, that's as straightforward as can be. ;)

What a simple and elegant solution, why didn't I think of that myself. But sometimes you need to translate a translation, think about the oratoriums of Haydn "Die Schöpfung" and "Die Jahreszeiten", the librettos were translated from Englisch into German and then back into English for the English audience, so that the text will fit the music.

As for the titles of the silent films and the use of articles, its quite interesting. Often times, when I am unsure, I will skip through the film, sometimes I will just use my natural language intuition. I feel like without an article it's about the general principle or occurrence of a thing, the indefinite article is for a random sample or occurrence of a thing and the definite article is for a special or unique thing or occurrance thereof. But interestingly even though our languages, English and German, are quite similar, the use of articles doesn't always work the same. For example in "Boy and Girl" I have translated it as "Der Junge und das Mädchen", but I wouldn't write "Junge und Mädchen", I don't know exactly why, maybe it's just personal preferance, but the later doesn't sound quite right to me, even though the English one doesn't sound wrong to me (keep in mind that I always translate from Russian to not create indirect translations, I sometimes use the English one as orientation).

By the way, I have noticed that the umlauts (Ää, Öö, Üü) are displayed correctly on the update page, but on the entries' pages they are just a string of characters.

>By the way, I have noticed that the umlauts (Ää, Öö, Üü) are displayed correctly on the update page, but on the entries' pages they are just a string of characters.
Thanks for bringing my attention to this, I'm going to try and fix the existing errors and then figure out why it's doing that.
EDIT: I think I fixed it.

>Adult cartoons might have more material to work with and are more flexible when it comes to work arounds, but i still have to confirm this myself.
It varies. :)

>The easiest and most straight forward one was "Absent-Minded Giovanni"
Likewise.

>But sometimes you need to translate a translation, think about the oratoriums of Haydn "Die Schöpfung" and "Die Jahreszeiten", the librettos were translated from Englisch into German and then back into English for the English audience, so that the text will fit the music.
I had to do that for Hrzhanovskiy's cartoon about English nursery rhymes. He adapted the Russian translation of them, which was not the same as the original English! I had to re-retranslate quite a few lines, although sometimes I left it closer to the original English even though it didn't quite match what was on the screen (for example, in the original English, boys are made of "frogs and snails, and puppy-dogs' tails", but in Russian the "puppy-dogs' tails" are replaced by "seashells", which is what the cartoon shows. But I couldn't figure out a way to work that into the translation, and it is such a well-known line that I left it as it is, though I'm not really happy about it.

>Now speaking of this, I am not really a fan of the 2012 revival of the carousel series, I might translate them for completions sake, but I will see on that.
I haven't seen them, to be honest, so I can't comment... in any case, I'm definitely prioritizing the earlier ones.

P.S. I've got a question. When sorting English titles alphabetically, words like 'A', 'An', or 'The' at the beginning of a title get ignored. Is there something equivalent in German?

Replies: >>9

7. Тихон 2022-10-09 01:59:02 (edited 2022-10-10 01:24:57)

>>6

6. Admin 2022-10-08 19:55:59 (edited 2022-10-08 20:01:43)

>>5

>Well, for starters I will concentrate on childrens cartoons, I want to develop my skills first, because I don't know how demanding they are.

Sometimes I've found that children's cartoons are the most difficult, because they require a simplicity and economy of language, while the more "adult" things are actually easier. I'd recommend finding things you like - I've always found that the best motivation, regardless of difficulty. :) Maybe find a director who's made a film you've liked and see what else they've done, or if you like films from a particular period, look at what else was made in those years (Browse>Be Decade).

>For example, in "There will come soft rain" there is a poem at the end, but everything before that seems prettty straight forward.

When I come across a famous poem like that one, I'll usually check to see if it has already been translated. If there's already a good translation, that's as straightforward as can be. ;)

>I left the pics in >>1 as they were, because I think it's funny they're too big.

Sure. ;)

>I have no idea were to look for German subs, sorry.

Ah, okay. For a lot of other languages I've found subtitle sites specifically for that language (or sometimes for a closely-related group of languages), so that's the first place I look, but I haven't found a site like that for German.

>I've started to translate the titles for the silent films, but it's harder than I thought.

The stuff from the 1920s and early 1930s can be especially difficult because there were all these ideas, organizations and sayings that are now quite obscure. I get the impression that it was a very weird time. I find translating things from both before and after that period to be easier. Though the 1950s presents its own challenges, because so many of the cartoons from that era had scripts that were all in verse.

>I am always on the fence about if and what kind of article I should use, definite or indefinite.

Sometimes it doesn't matter, while other times it really does but it's impossible to tell without watching the film to understand the context.

>Sometimes I've found that children's cartoons are the most difficult, because they require a simplicity and economy of language, while the more "adult" things are actually easier.
I think you might be right, especially when it comes to nursery rhymes. Initially it might be easier to understand and translate, but to really make it work on screen is the hard part. The most difficult one so far was "Cock-and-Bull Story" because it was in verses and also had the spoken words often contrast and play around with what was shown on screen, so I had to get the timing of the words right too. The easiest and most straight forward one was "Absent-Minded Giovanni", even the titular wordplay worked perfectly in German (both "рассеянный" and "zerstreut" mean "scattered" as well as "scatterbrained", as he was literally scattered in the cartoon. I just love it when it works out like this).
Adult cartoons might have more material to work with and are more flexible when it comes to work arounds, but i still have to confirm this myself.

>I'd recommend finding things you like - I've always found that the best motivation, regardless of difficulty. :)
I love these cartoons. Even though they are intended for a child or family oriented audience, they are so masterfully crafted and diverse too. Now speaking of this, I am not really a fan of the 2012 revival of the carousel series, I might translate them for completions sake, but I will see on that.

>When I come across a famous poem like that one, I'll usually check to see if it has already been translated. If there's already a good translation, that's as straightforward as can be. ;)
What a simple and elegant solution, why didn't I think of that myself. But sometimes you need to translate a translation, think about the oratoriums of Haydn "Die Schöpfung" and "Die Jahreszeiten", the librettos were translated from Englisch into German and then back into English for the English audience, so that the text will fit the music.

As for the titles of the silent films and the use of articles, its quite interesting. Often times, when I am unsure, I will skip through the film, sometimes I will just use my natural language intuition. I feel like without an article it's about the general principle or occurrence of a thing, the indefinite article is for a random sample or occurrence of a thing and the definite article is for a special or unique thing or occurrance thereof. But interestingly even though our languages, English and German, are quite similar, the use of articles doesn't always work the same. For example in "Boy and Girl" I have translated it as "Der Junge und das Mädchen", but I wouldn't write "Junge und Mädchen", I don't know exactly why, maybe it's just personal preferance, but the later doesn't sound quite right to me, even though the English one doesn't sound wrong to me (keep in mind that I always translate from Russian to not create indirect translations, I sometimes use the English one as orientation).

By the way, I have noticed that the umlauts (Ää, Öö, Üü) are displayed correctly on the update page, but on the entries' pages they are just a string of characters.

Replies: >>8

8. Admin 2022-10-10 00:59:33 (edited 2022-10-10 02:32:56)

>>7

>By the way, I have noticed that the umlauts (Ää, Öö, Üü) are displayed correctly on the update page, but on the entries' pages they are just a string of characters.
Thanks for bringing my attention to this, I'm going to try and fix the existing errors and then figure out why it's doing that.
EDIT: I think I fixed it.

>Adult cartoons might have more material to work with and are more flexible when it comes to work arounds, but i still have to confirm this myself.
It varies. :)

>The easiest and most straight forward one was "Absent-Minded Giovanni"
Likewise.

>But sometimes you need to translate a translation, think about the oratoriums of Haydn "Die Schöpfung" and "Die Jahreszeiten", the librettos were translated from Englisch into German and then back into English for the English audience, so that the text will fit the music.
I had to do that for Hrzhanovskiy's cartoon about English nursery rhymes. He adapted the Russian translation of them, which was not the same as the original English! I had to re-retranslate quite a few lines, although sometimes I left it closer to the original English even though it didn't quite match what was on the screen (for example, in the original English, boys are made of "frogs and snails, and puppy-dogs' tails", but in Russian the "puppy-dogs' tails" are replaced by "seashells", which is what the cartoon shows. But I couldn't figure out a way to work that into the translation, and it is such a well-known line that I left it as it is, though I'm not really happy about it.

>Now speaking of this, I am not really a fan of the 2012 revival of the carousel series, I might translate them for completions sake, but I will see on that.
I haven't seen them, to be honest, so I can't comment... in any case, I'm definitely prioritizing the earlier ones.

P.S. I've got a question. When sorting English titles alphabetically, words like 'A', 'An', or 'The' at the beginning of a title get ignored. Is there something equivalent in German?

6. Admin 2022-10-08 19:55:59 (edited 2022-10-08 20:01:43)

>>5
>Well, for starters I will concentrate on childrens cartoons, I want to develop my skills first, because I don't know how demanding they are.
Sometimes I've found that children's cartoons are the most difficult, because they require a simplicity and economy of language, while the more "adult" things are actually easier. I'd recommend finding things you like - I've always found that the best motivation, regardless of difficulty. :) Maybe find a director who's made a film you've liked and see what else they've done, or if you like films from a particular period, look at what else was made in those years (Browse>Be Decade).

>For example, in "There will come soft rain" there is a poem at the end, but everything before that seems prettty straight forward.
When I come across a famous poem like that one, I'll usually check to see if it has already been translated. If there's already a good translation, that's as straightforward as can be. ;)

>I left the pics in >>1 as they were, because I think it's funny they're too big.
Sure. ;)

>I have no idea were to look for German subs, sorry.
Ah, okay. For a lot of other languages I've found subtitle sites specifically for that language (or sometimes for a closely-related group of languages), so that's the first place I look, but I haven't found a site like that for German.

>I've started to translate the titles for the silent films, but it's harder than I thought.
The stuff from the 1920s and early 1930s can be especially difficult because there were all these ideas, organizations and sayings that are now quite obscure. I get the impression that it was a very weird time. I find translating things from both before and after that period to be easier. Though the 1950s presents its own challenges, because so many of the cartoons from that era had scripts that were all in verse.

>I am always on the fence about if and what kind of article I should use, definite or indefinite.
Sometimes it doesn't matter, while other times it really does but it's impossible to tell without watching the film to understand the context.

Replies: >>7

7. Тихон 2022-10-09 01:59:02 (edited 2022-10-10 01:24:57)

>>6

>Sometimes I've found that children's cartoons are the most difficult, because they require a simplicity and economy of language, while the more "adult" things are actually easier.
I think you might be right, especially when it comes to nursery rhymes. Initially it might be easier to understand and translate, but to really make it work on screen is the hard part. The most difficult one so far was "Cock-and-Bull Story" because it was in verses and also had the spoken words often contrast and play around with what was shown on screen, so I had to get the timing of the words right too. The easiest and most straight forward one was "Absent-Minded Giovanni", even the titular wordplay worked perfectly in German (both "рассеянный" and "zerstreut" mean "scattered" as well as "scatterbrained", as he was literally scattered in the cartoon. I just love it when it works out like this).
Adult cartoons might have more material to work with and are more flexible when it comes to work arounds, but i still have to confirm this myself.

>I'd recommend finding things you like - I've always found that the best motivation, regardless of difficulty. :)
I love these cartoons. Even though they are intended for a child or family oriented audience, they are so masterfully crafted and diverse too. Now speaking of this, I am not really a fan of the 2012 revival of the carousel series, I might translate them for completions sake, but I will see on that.

>When I come across a famous poem like that one, I'll usually check to see if it has already been translated. If there's already a good translation, that's as straightforward as can be. ;)
What a simple and elegant solution, why didn't I think of that myself. But sometimes you need to translate a translation, think about the oratoriums of Haydn "Die Schöpfung" and "Die Jahreszeiten", the librettos were translated from Englisch into German and then back into English for the English audience, so that the text will fit the music.

As for the titles of the silent films and the use of articles, its quite interesting. Often times, when I am unsure, I will skip through the film, sometimes I will just use my natural language intuition. I feel like without an article it's about the general principle or occurrence of a thing, the indefinite article is for a random sample or occurrence of a thing and the definite article is for a special or unique thing or occurrance thereof. But interestingly even though our languages, English and German, are quite similar, the use of articles doesn't always work the same. For example in "Boy and Girl" I have translated it as "Der Junge und das Mädchen", but I wouldn't write "Junge und Mädchen", I don't know exactly why, maybe it's just personal preferance, but the later doesn't sound quite right to me, even though the English one doesn't sound wrong to me (keep in mind that I always translate from Russian to not create indirect translations, I sometimes use the English one as orientation).

By the way, I have noticed that the umlauts (Ää, Öö, Üü) are displayed correctly on the update page, but on the entries' pages they are just a string of characters.

5. Тихон 2022-10-08 01:41:40

>>4
>Were you thinking of translating any of his sci-fi?
Well, for starters I will concentrate on childrens cartoons, I want to develop my skills first, because I don't know how demanding they are. For example, in "There will come soft rain" there is a poem at the end, but everything before that seems prettty straight forward. But I would like to translate them one day, I really like their unique style, it's unlike anything I've seen in the west so far.

>Heh. Don't forget you can edit and delete your comments, too, if you make a mistake. ;)
I am aware of that feature and think it's very convenient. I left the pics in >>1 as they were, because I think it's funny they're too big.

>so maybe there are already German subtitles of it somewhere?
I have no idea were to look for German subs, sorry.

I've started to translate the titles for the silent films, but it's harder than I thought. I am always on the fence about if and what kind of article I should use, definite or indefinite.

Replies: >>6

6. Admin 2022-10-08 19:55:59 (edited 2022-10-08 20:01:43)

>>5

>Well, for starters I will concentrate on childrens cartoons, I want to develop my skills first, because I don't know how demanding they are.
Sometimes I've found that children's cartoons are the most difficult, because they require a simplicity and economy of language, while the more "adult" things are actually easier. I'd recommend finding things you like - I've always found that the best motivation, regardless of difficulty. :) Maybe find a director who's made a film you've liked and see what else they've done, or if you like films from a particular period, look at what else was made in those years (Browse>Be Decade).

>For example, in "There will come soft rain" there is a poem at the end, but everything before that seems prettty straight forward.
When I come across a famous poem like that one, I'll usually check to see if it has already been translated. If there's already a good translation, that's as straightforward as can be. ;)

>I left the pics in >>1 as they were, because I think it's funny they're too big.
Sure. ;)

>I have no idea were to look for German subs, sorry.
Ah, okay. For a lot of other languages I've found subtitle sites specifically for that language (or sometimes for a closely-related group of languages), so that's the first place I look, but I haven't found a site like that for German.

>I've started to translate the titles for the silent films, but it's harder than I thought.
The stuff from the 1920s and early 1930s can be especially difficult because there were all these ideas, organizations and sayings that are now quite obscure. I get the impression that it was a very weird time. I find translating things from both before and after that period to be easier. Though the 1950s presents its own challenges, because so many of the cartoons from that era had scripts that were all in verse.

>I am always on the fence about if and what kind of article I should use, definite or indefinite.
Sometimes it doesn't matter, while other times it really does but it's impossible to tell without watching the film to understand the context.

4. Admin 2022-10-07 21:22:59 (edited 2022-10-07 21:39:00)

>>1
>I am a sucker for sience fiction stories like blue meteroite, it reminded me of Vladimir Tarasovs style like in contract.
Yeah, I like Tarasov too. He got ignored by the critics, for some reason, except for "Contact" - I don't think his other films won even a single award, which is a real shame. Were you thinking of translating any of his sci-fi? For "Contract", the original subs by Eus were supposedly made from a German translation, so maybe there are already German subtitles of it somewhere?

>>3
>apparently I am the first one to use that feature in the comments
Heh. Don't forget you can edit and delete your comments, too, if you make a mistake. ;) I don't have a "comment preview" feature but I think the ability to easily edit and delete is a good substitute.

Replies: >>5

3. Тихон 2022-10-07 03:37:34 (edited 2022-10-07 11:51:49)

>>2

apparently I am the first one to use that feature in the comments

Replies: >>4

2. Тихон 2022-10-07 03:20:34

>>1
Oh damn, I didn't know they were so big

Replies: >>3

1. Тихон 2022-10-07 03:18:45 (edited 2022-10-07 11:55:01)

Poggers

I will try to make the german subs today, I think I will have fun with these ones. I am a sucker for sience fiction stories like blue meteroite, it reminded me of Vladimir Tarasovs style like in contract.

I don't know if I will finish 'em today, after all I've already wasted time creating these images

Replies: >>2 >>4

6. Admin 2022-10-06 14:34:45 (edited 2022-10-06 14:39:00)

>>5
>But poetry is not only about rimes, it's also about metre and stylistic devices,
Yeah, I try to keep the metre similar if I can't make it rhyme. Although if I think there's still a decent possibility that it can be done better with enough effort (by making it rhyme while keeping the translation close, even if it would be really difficult), I'll usually rate the subs "Ok" instead of "Good". I prefer to err toward the critical end in ratings.

>I've noticed that the time on this site is GMT -8, is it located in the west of the US?
I think the server is, though the hosting company is Indian.
-8 isn't actually even my time zone; I guess it just never bothered me.

11. Тихон 2022-10-06 13:40:19

>>10
>Impressive goal. I don't think all of them are even subtitled yet. I've got English subs for #1-13 & 18, but I think a lot of the text still needs revision...
In the meantime I've contacted Teenator and told him I was working on carousel, and he offered me his help! I still have to write him back on this

I have thought about that forum thing and think it would be a good idea. There are thoughts of mine that I would certainly like to create topics and discussions about. You could even link some threads like an FAQ

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